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	<title>Comments on: what color am I?</title>
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	<link>http://www.opennasa.com/2008/03/13/what-color-am-i/</link>
	<description>Your NASA, My NASA, OUR NASA</description>
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		<title>By: Grant Henninger</title>
		<link>http://www.opennasa.com/2008/03/13/what-color-am-i/comment-page-1/#comment-259</link>
		<dc:creator>Grant Henninger</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 23 Mar 2008 19:15:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.opennasa.com/2008/03/13/what-color-am-i/#comment-259</guid>
		<description>Here is another related question: What does diversity bring to a team and how is that quantified?  Is it possible that choosing a qualified applicant based on race or different life experiences might benefit a team more than choosing a more highly qualified applicant that is just like everybody else on the team?  It might be that those different experiences will have lead the person to approach problems in different ways and play off others ideas different leading to better solutions.  That would have a real value, one that might not be seen when comparing two resumes.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Here is another related question: What does diversity bring to a team and how is that quantified?  Is it possible that choosing a qualified applicant based on race or different life experiences might benefit a team more than choosing a more highly qualified applicant that is just like everybody else on the team?  It might be that those different experiences will have lead the person to approach problems in different ways and play off others ideas different leading to better solutions.  That would have a real value, one that might not be seen when comparing two resumes.</p>
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		<title>By: K</title>
		<link>http://www.opennasa.com/2008/03/13/what-color-am-i/comment-page-1/#comment-189</link>
		<dc:creator>K</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 14 Mar 2008 17:02:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.opennasa.com/2008/03/13/what-color-am-i/#comment-189</guid>
		<description>Almost everybody is insulted by the suggestion that their achievements are the result of preferential treatment based on race or sex.  (For the moment let&#039;s disregard other factors that may give an unfair, non-merit-based advantage in hiring or admissions, such as being a &quot;legacy&quot; or having a friend on the inside.)  Everybody wants to be taken seriously for who they really are, not for the color of their skin or their procreational capabilities.

However, affirmative action is more than the mere quota that so many people seem to think it is.  Affirmative action doesn&#039;t mean that a completely unqualified minority or woman is going to be hired or admitted in place of a qualified white male.  The purpose of affirmative action is to prevent or offset discrimination that still occurs.  Minorities and women still get discriminated against, unfortunately.  They are still discouraged from a young age from going into science and engineering.  They still get graded more harshly be prejudiced teachers and professors.  They still get lower SAT scores RELATIVE TO THEIR ACTUAL SCHOLASTIC APTITUDE as measured by grades.  Affirmative action seeks to correct this injustice.  Is it a perfect system?  No, it&#039;s not.  But it&#039;s not just a quota, and it doesn&#039;t put wholly unqualified candidates into positions they can&#039;t handle.  Its motive is good, and it&#039;s one that needs to be achieved some way or another as long as discrimination persists.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Almost everybody is insulted by the suggestion that their achievements are the result of preferential treatment based on race or sex.  (For the moment let&#8217;s disregard other factors that may give an unfair, non-merit-based advantage in hiring or admissions, such as being a &#8220;legacy&#8221; or having a friend on the inside.)  Everybody wants to be taken seriously for who they really are, not for the color of their skin or their procreational capabilities.</p>
<p>However, affirmative action is more than the mere quota that so many people seem to think it is.  Affirmative action doesn&#8217;t mean that a completely unqualified minority or woman is going to be hired or admitted in place of a qualified white male.  The purpose of affirmative action is to prevent or offset discrimination that still occurs.  Minorities and women still get discriminated against, unfortunately.  They are still discouraged from a young age from going into science and engineering.  They still get graded more harshly be prejudiced teachers and professors.  They still get lower SAT scores RELATIVE TO THEIR ACTUAL SCHOLASTIC APTITUDE as measured by grades.  Affirmative action seeks to correct this injustice.  Is it a perfect system?  No, it&#8217;s not.  But it&#8217;s not just a quota, and it doesn&#8217;t put wholly unqualified candidates into positions they can&#8217;t handle.  Its motive is good, and it&#8217;s one that needs to be achieved some way or another as long as discrimination persists.</p>
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		<title>By: Karen Lau</title>
		<link>http://www.opennasa.com/2008/03/13/what-color-am-i/comment-page-1/#comment-182</link>
		<dc:creator>Karen Lau</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 14 Mar 2008 16:25:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.opennasa.com/2008/03/13/what-color-am-i/#comment-182</guid>
		<description>Diversity allows a greater perspective to be seen and shared amongst a team. Different cultures have different problem solving skills that can contribute enormously to certain situations. Though I firmly believe in hiring for competency and skill, a little spice can yield surprising results if we just listened.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Diversity allows a greater perspective to be seen and shared amongst a team. Different cultures have different problem solving skills that can contribute enormously to certain situations. Though I firmly believe in hiring for competency and skill, a little spice can yield surprising results if we just listened.</p>
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		<title>By: Mark Wilkinson</title>
		<link>http://www.opennasa.com/2008/03/13/what-color-am-i/comment-page-1/#comment-174</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark Wilkinson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 14 Mar 2008 15:13:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.opennasa.com/2008/03/13/what-color-am-i/#comment-174</guid>
		<description>I was a pilot candidate in the USAF at the end of the &#039;91 Gulf War.  I wanted a career as a soldier.  Fly, fight, win.  All that stuff.

When the budget cuts hit, I was out the door, because I wouldn&#039;t voluntarily give up my position as a pilot candidate for different &quot;slot&quot; in the USAF.  The year before, I had received the &quot;Cadet of the Year&quot; award.  I was the poster-boy high speed cadet.

In my class there was another &quot;white&quot; pilot candidate like myself.  He managed to hold on to his pilot slot.  Why?  He was a first generation American; his parents immigrated from Spain.  He was of Spanish descent.  (You know, the same Spain that is just a hop, skip, and jump from the Czech Republic from where my ancestors emigrated?)

I&#039;m currently working on a space program.  There is a academic outreach segment of this program.  This segment will spend its resources specifically targeting minorities.  Is this truly the kind of final solution we want to the question of white men in America?

Mark</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I was a pilot candidate in the USAF at the end of the &#8217;91 Gulf War.  I wanted a career as a soldier.  Fly, fight, win.  All that stuff.</p>
<p>When the budget cuts hit, I was out the door, because I wouldn&#8217;t voluntarily give up my position as a pilot candidate for different &#8220;slot&#8221; in the USAF.  The year before, I had received the &#8220;Cadet of the Year&#8221; award.  I was the poster-boy high speed cadet.</p>
<p>In my class there was another &#8220;white&#8221; pilot candidate like myself.  He managed to hold on to his pilot slot.  Why?  He was a first generation American; his parents immigrated from Spain.  He was of Spanish descent.  (You know, the same Spain that is just a hop, skip, and jump from the Czech Republic from where my ancestors emigrated?)</p>
<p>I&#8217;m currently working on a space program.  There is a academic outreach segment of this program.  This segment will spend its resources specifically targeting minorities.  Is this truly the kind of final solution we want to the question of white men in America?</p>
<p>Mark</p>
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		<title>By: Dan</title>
		<link>http://www.opennasa.com/2008/03/13/what-color-am-i/comment-page-1/#comment-172</link>
		<dc:creator>Dan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 14 Mar 2008 14:14:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.opennasa.com/2008/03/13/what-color-am-i/#comment-172</guid>
		<description>Of course I&#039;d like to believe that I am the most talented and accomplished person on the planet, a self-made man sculpted by my own hand.  My employer wants to believe that theirs, the most flawless selection process possible, was worth the effort.  We do the best we can.  Perhaps I wasn&#039;t chosen based upon race - but I&#039;m sure that somewhere along the line I was chosen, among other things, for some quality comparable to race.  Maybe it was my ability to juggle, or to make small talk.  I work with people of all types who cover skill ranges from competent to useless.  The bad ones got themselves chosen somehow.  The good ones didn&#039;t necessarily get chosen for better reasons - sometimes we just got lucky that our hunches were right.  I think the selection process must be useful, since the ratio is skewed towards the competent, but we may not be as in control as we&#039;d like to think.  So I support Lopezac&#039;s idea: just get in, and do your best.  Don&#039;t look back.  If you do a good job, you deserved to be hired, no matter why you got in.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Of course I&#8217;d like to believe that I am the most talented and accomplished person on the planet, a self-made man sculpted by my own hand.  My employer wants to believe that theirs, the most flawless selection process possible, was worth the effort.  We do the best we can.  Perhaps I wasn&#8217;t chosen based upon race &#8211; but I&#8217;m sure that somewhere along the line I was chosen, among other things, for some quality comparable to race.  Maybe it was my ability to juggle, or to make small talk.  I work with people of all types who cover skill ranges from competent to useless.  The bad ones got themselves chosen somehow.  The good ones didn&#8217;t necessarily get chosen for better reasons &#8211; sometimes we just got lucky that our hunches were right.  I think the selection process must be useful, since the ratio is skewed towards the competent, but we may not be as in control as we&#8217;d like to think.  So I support Lopezac&#8217;s idea: just get in, and do your best.  Don&#8217;t look back.  If you do a good job, you deserved to be hired, no matter why you got in.</p>
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		<title>By: Fermionicgirl</title>
		<link>http://www.opennasa.com/2008/03/13/what-color-am-i/comment-page-1/#comment-170</link>
		<dc:creator>Fermionicgirl</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 14 Mar 2008 04:31:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.opennasa.com/2008/03/13/what-color-am-i/#comment-170</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m a black, female, physicist. I absolutely do not want my race to be considered when I&#039;m applying for any position because I&#039;ve worked so hard for all of my achievements. So, I don&#039;t believe in affirmative action, though I do believe there are issues facing minorities that can be handled differently (for example, through summer programs for minorities).   Frankly, I believe there are plenty of qualified minorities such that we don&#039;t need special consideration.  I really like the existence of special program for minority applicants to increase the number of qualified minorities.  These programs find excellent students with great potential.  I just don&#039;t think those considerations should be made in general programs nor career environments.

 Race was never an issue for me until graduate school, when people from &quot;the majority&quot; continued to bring up my race as a reason why I probably will &quot;never fit in&quot; or why they would &quot;never understand me&quot;.  The judgments were made before the judges even met me; they noticed my race when I came to visit after being accepted.  My second worse experience in an unreasonable focus on ethnicity was in NASA Academy.  I do far better in an environment in which race is NEVER discussed as a handicap. 

That being said, I recognize that I grew up in an environment in which I was surrounded by very few other African Americans. There were perhaps 5 in my high school of 1600 students.  So, I completely respect the very different opinions of those who grew up differently.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m a black, female, physicist. I absolutely do not want my race to be considered when I&#8217;m applying for any position because I&#8217;ve worked so hard for all of my achievements. So, I don&#8217;t believe in affirmative action, though I do believe there are issues facing minorities that can be handled differently (for example, through summer programs for minorities).   Frankly, I believe there are plenty of qualified minorities such that we don&#8217;t need special consideration.  I really like the existence of special program for minority applicants to increase the number of qualified minorities.  These programs find excellent students with great potential.  I just don&#8217;t think those considerations should be made in general programs nor career environments.</p>
<p> Race was never an issue for me until graduate school, when people from &#8220;the majority&#8221; continued to bring up my race as a reason why I probably will &#8220;never fit in&#8221; or why they would &#8220;never understand me&#8221;.  The judgments were made before the judges even met me; they noticed my race when I came to visit after being accepted.  My second worse experience in an unreasonable focus on ethnicity was in NASA Academy.  I do far better in an environment in which race is NEVER discussed as a handicap. </p>
<p>That being said, I recognize that I grew up in an environment in which I was surrounded by very few other African Americans. There were perhaps 5 in my high school of 1600 students.  So, I completely respect the very different opinions of those who grew up differently.</p>
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		<title>By: Carie</title>
		<link>http://www.opennasa.com/2008/03/13/what-color-am-i/comment-page-1/#comment-163</link>
		<dc:creator>Carie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 14 Mar 2008 02:06:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.opennasa.com/2008/03/13/what-color-am-i/#comment-163</guid>
		<description>Hi Rivers,

I get pretty pissed off every time someone suggests that I got a position or had an opportunity because I&#039;m a woman.  I am offended by what that suggests: that my talents, background, and all of my hard work don&#039;t mean anything because I have ovaries.  There are lots of people out there who, even if my work should speak for itself, will see me not as a qualified person but as the &quot;token woman&quot;.

Hiring people based on gender or skin color only gives certain people reason to continue believing that women and minorities don&#039;t deserve the positions they have.  Diversity IS very important, but the diversity that NASA needs to be looking for is diversity in thinking, approaching problems, and educational and experiential backgrounds.  To get this, NASA needs to hire from the entire pool of educated people and the larger that pool is, the better for NASA.  That’s where gender and race and other factors come in: if certain groups of people or excluded or discouraged from the field, NASA loses a significant pool of intelligent and potentially qualified people.

The under-representation and unequal treatment of certain groups in science and engineering is a problem and solving it is tricky.  While I hate quotas and race- or gender-based hiring, I think that outreach programs that encourage students of all backgrounds to enter the sciences and work for NASA are wonderful and important.  All children should be encouraged to believe that they can grow up to be rocket scientists, not just white boys (and not just black girls either).  Likewise, programs that help people of all backgrounds get a start in their education or a foot in the door in the space industry are important for encouraging those students who were promised an equal chance as youths.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Rivers,</p>
<p>I get pretty pissed off every time someone suggests that I got a position or had an opportunity because I&#8217;m a woman.  I am offended by what that suggests: that my talents, background, and all of my hard work don&#8217;t mean anything because I have ovaries.  There are lots of people out there who, even if my work should speak for itself, will see me not as a qualified person but as the &#8220;token woman&#8221;.</p>
<p>Hiring people based on gender or skin color only gives certain people reason to continue believing that women and minorities don&#8217;t deserve the positions they have.  Diversity IS very important, but the diversity that NASA needs to be looking for is diversity in thinking, approaching problems, and educational and experiential backgrounds.  To get this, NASA needs to hire from the entire pool of educated people and the larger that pool is, the better for NASA.  That’s where gender and race and other factors come in: if certain groups of people or excluded or discouraged from the field, NASA loses a significant pool of intelligent and potentially qualified people.</p>
<p>The under-representation and unequal treatment of certain groups in science and engineering is a problem and solving it is tricky.  While I hate quotas and race- or gender-based hiring, I think that outreach programs that encourage students of all backgrounds to enter the sciences and work for NASA are wonderful and important.  All children should be encouraged to believe that they can grow up to be rocket scientists, not just white boys (and not just black girls either).  Likewise, programs that help people of all backgrounds get a start in their education or a foot in the door in the space industry are important for encouraging those students who were promised an equal chance as youths.</p>
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		<title>By: Ash</title>
		<link>http://www.opennasa.com/2008/03/13/what-color-am-i/comment-page-1/#comment-162</link>
		<dc:creator>Ash</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 14 Mar 2008 00:41:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.opennasa.com/2008/03/13/what-color-am-i/#comment-162</guid>
		<description>Being a girl trying to get my first job in aerospace, I do not want to be hired for the fact that I am female. No way, no how. I want to prove that I am just as good as any other applicant out there. I do not want something like gender to make me better or worse than someone, I want to be better or worse than someone else for the sole fact of who I am.  

I was tempted to put &#039;Purple People Eater&#039; on an application once but then I realize I would never be taken as a serious candidate, even though I wanted to be taken seriously for something other than my lack of a y chromosome.  

Its a hard line to walk, and I really don&#039;t think anyone can walk it well. The workforce needs diversity, but at what cost?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Being a girl trying to get my first job in aerospace, I do not want to be hired for the fact that I am female. No way, no how. I want to prove that I am just as good as any other applicant out there. I do not want something like gender to make me better or worse than someone, I want to be better or worse than someone else for the sole fact of who I am.  </p>
<p>I was tempted to put &#8216;Purple People Eater&#8217; on an application once but then I realize I would never be taken as a serious candidate, even though I wanted to be taken seriously for something other than my lack of a y chromosome.  </p>
<p>Its a hard line to walk, and I really don&#8217;t think anyone can walk it well. The workforce needs diversity, but at what cost?</p>
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		<title>By: Lopezac</title>
		<link>http://www.opennasa.com/2008/03/13/what-color-am-i/comment-page-1/#comment-161</link>
		<dc:creator>Lopezac</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 14 Mar 2008 00:19:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.opennasa.com/2008/03/13/what-color-am-i/#comment-161</guid>
		<description>I was hired under a program targeted to minorities. I really don&#039;t care how I got hire; all I care is that I could get my foot at the door. If you want to work in a specific company, and you know somebody that works there, wouldn&#039;t you ask for help to get in? Yes you would. Besides, companies always need to hire a certain number of minorities, fresh outs, females, etc...So far I have done great, and I have accomplished a lot in only three years, that&#039;s what matters. Nope, I don&#039;t feel ashamed that I was hired as a minority.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I was hired under a program targeted to minorities. I really don&#8217;t care how I got hire; all I care is that I could get my foot at the door. If you want to work in a specific company, and you know somebody that works there, wouldn&#8217;t you ask for help to get in? Yes you would. Besides, companies always need to hire a certain number of minorities, fresh outs, females, etc&#8230;So far I have done great, and I have accomplished a lot in only three years, that&#8217;s what matters. Nope, I don&#8217;t feel ashamed that I was hired as a minority.</p>
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		<title>By: Santiago</title>
		<link>http://www.opennasa.com/2008/03/13/what-color-am-i/comment-page-1/#comment-160</link>
		<dc:creator>Santiago</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 13 Mar 2008 22:00:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.opennasa.com/2008/03/13/what-color-am-i/#comment-160</guid>
		<description>Thanks for starting this post!  I don&#039;t think anyone wants to think they got where they are because of charity, but I want to bring up the fact that diversity is good both for an organization, for society, and for the final content created.  There&#039;s a conference going on right now regarding what gender contributes to the equation:  http://www.stanford.edu/group/gender/Events/GISE2.html
I&#039;m not pointing fingers, but must admit I tire when race/ gender conversations devolve into saying &#039;it doesn&#039;t matter&#039;, because the reality is that experiences differ depending on those things, and it is important to acknowledge that.
Thanks for the post!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for starting this post!  I don&#8217;t think anyone wants to think they got where they are because of charity, but I want to bring up the fact that diversity is good both for an organization, for society, and for the final content created.  There&#8217;s a conference going on right now regarding what gender contributes to the equation:  <a href="http://www.stanford.edu/group/gender/Events/GISE2.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.stanford.edu/group/.....GISE2.html</a><br />
I&#8217;m not pointing fingers, but must admit I tire when race/ gender conversations devolve into saying &#8216;it doesn&#8217;t matter&#8217;, because the reality is that experiences differ depending on those things, and it is important to acknowledge that.<br />
Thanks for the post!</p>
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